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Another Thursday…
...another Big East game with major national championship implications.
Last week I predicted that Louisville would be playing for the championship if they win out, and I still think that's the case. That's the "will they?" side of the equation. I hadn't really thought about the "should they?" question. So I'll do that now.
Let's assume Louisville wins out and compare them to a top one-loss team. There is a possibility that the Ohio State - Michigan loser could be Louisville's main challenger, but my guess is that Florida will be the team with the most support from the public. If the Gators win out, they'll go to the SEC championship game. Let's assume that's against Arkansas and that they win that too.
I am a well-known SEC-hater, but I will try to be as objective as possible. Well, OK, I actually won't try to be objective. But, like Bart Simpson, I will try to try. Anyway, nothing is more objective than a mathematical algorithm, so I'll use that as my main basis of comparison. Jeff Sagarin's ratings are probably the most famous and most well-respected ratings out there, so I'll go with those.
There is a segment of the population that believes the SEC is head and shoulders above all other conferences every year because, well, I guess because it's the SEC. I really have never been given any other reason. If you're one of those people, then this analysis won't appeal to you. If, however, you're willing to regard Alabama as a team that lost to Mississippi State last week instead of as a team that is great because they're Alabama --- Alabama --- then you might find this of interest.
Here are the current Sagarin rankings for Florida's and Louisville's opponents:
Florida Louisvilleopp rank opp rank
==================================================
LSU 7 West Virginia 9
Auburn 11 Rutgers 15
Tennessee 14 Pitt 34
Arkansas 16 Kentucky 46
South Carolina 36 Cincy 51
Florida State 42 Kansas State 54
Kentucky 46 South Florida 55
Alabama 47 Miami 57
Georgia 48 Middle TN St. 65
Southern Miss 66 Syracuse 67
Vanderbilt 73 Connecticut 74
Central Florida 118 Temple 158
West. Carolina 214
Let's pair them up into roughly equivalent games:
- They both beat Kentucky - so we cross that one off the list.
- Louisville over West Virginia - Florida over Tennessee
- Louisville over Rutgers - Florida over Arkansas
- Louisville over Pitt - Florida over South Carolina
- Louisville over Cincy - Florida over Southern Miss
- Louisville over MTSU - Florida over Vanderbilt
- Louisville over Temple - Florida over Western Carolina
In all the above cases, the two opponents are equivalent according to the Sagarin rankings. Louisville's opponents actually have a very slight advantage in all the above pairs, but I'm trying to try to be objective, so I'm calling it a wash.
Now, the thing that kills me about talking to SEC fans is that they are constantly saying things like this:
Man, there's just no off weeks in the SEC. It's brutal to have to play Alabama, LSU, Auburn, then Georgia.
LSU and Auburn are very good teams, no doubt. But even when Alabama loses at home to Mississippi State and Georgia loses to Vanderbilt and Kentucky, they still try to slip Georgia and Alabama into the conversation about how tough the SEC is. Alabama and Georgia rank 47 and 48 in the Sagarin rankings. Kansas State (who has won more games in the last several years than either Georgia or Alabama, if that's relevant) and South Florida rank 54 and 55. Those pairs are basically equivalent. I think it's fair to say that Miami and Florida State are a match given their histories and the fact that they played a very close game earlier this year.
So we've stripped out the parts of their schedules that are equivalent. What does that leave?
Louisville vs. Syracuse
Florida vs. Auburn and LSU
Beating Syracuse doesn't count for much. Beating LSU does. If Florida were undefeated, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The problem is that they have a loss.
After working through all this, I'm actually a little more sympathetic to Florida's case. If you want to make the case that a 10-0 record plus a 1-1 record against Auburn and LSU is more championship-worthy than an equivalent 10-0 record plus win over Syracuse, then I don't really have a problem with that. My objection is to the notion that the Georgia / Alabama / South Carolina part of the schedule is so much tougher than Cincy / Pittsburgh / Kansas State.
Of course, all these rankings will change --- in some cases drastically --- between now and the end of the season. But at that point I suspect that the relevant analysis will turn out similarly.
This entry was posted on Thursday, November 9th, 2006 at 5:03 am and is filed under BCS, College. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

nice COLLEGE football post at PRO football reference dot com
Interesting stuff, Doug. I've got to back Texas and Michigan, even though I hate Michigan. We're trying to decide which team is the second best in the nation. I don't understand how a knock against a team in the "which one of these is the second best in the country" can be "they lost to the first best team in the country." That's like saying "Mark van Eeghen isn't the best white running back ever; Barry Sanders was way faster."
If UT and UM have won loss -- to The Ohio State University -- I have a hard time voting against them. If we've got an undefeated Louisville, a 10-0 plus a 1-1 against Auburn/LSU team in Florida, and two undefeated when not playing the best team in the country perennial powerhouses, I don't know how you decide between them. But it won't be easy, and anyone that wants to leave UT or UM out of the equation because of an OSU loss isn't thinking clearly.
(Note: I know Doug is thinking clearly. I'm guessing he assumes that UT loses one hear on out, and Michigan loses fan support -- the "will they" not "should they" part of the question -- when they lose to OSU.)
This is exactly the kind of year where just sending the winner of OSU/Michigan to the Rose bowl to play USC(?) and declare them national champions if they win is far more satisfying than this BCS bullshit.
Bill M, get used to it. I love me some mathematical algorithm discussion and, to a much lesser extent, college football discussion.
You can probably count on one per week until mid-January
Doug, could you find the ratings of college football teams using the simple rating system, or would that be way too much work? I mention this because I'm not entirely sure that the Sagarin ratings are that good. Nice post btw, your objectivity will certainly be appreciated by the SEC crowd.
Bill M, your comment is also just begging to be answered with a joke about your favorite team, but I'll leave that to the more talented humorists.
I live about 50 miles from the intersection of Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee.
I really and truly do think the SEC atmosphere is unbelievably cool. Car flags, stickers, and T-shirts from all different teams are everywhere all the time.
I'm sure it's hard to grow up in that environment without fooling yourself into believing that your conference is better than it is.
Sure thing, but remember, the simple rating system is highly sensitive to margin of victory. In the NFL, the MoV stays in a reasonable range the vast majority of the time. In college, there are a lot more extreme blowouts, so you almost have to impose a cap on the MoV.
I like to count all wins as 10-point wins (at least) and count all wins over 24 points as 24-point wins. Here are the results of the simple rating system with those parameters:
Here is the simple rating system with no adjustments at all:
I'd definitely trust Sagarin's or Ken Massey's ratings over these. Not because I know exactly how those systems work, but because I know those two dudes are really smart and have spent a LOT of time and effort on their methods.
The nature of the college schedules makes it almost impossible to build a ranking system that doesn't have some objectionable (to most people, often including the creator of the system) attributes.
What about counting all wins by 7 or fewer points as ties, 7-14 points as 1 point wins, 15-21 as 2 point wins, and 22+ as 3 point wins? Would that make the ratings more reasonable?
Also, how accurate are the two lists you gave at predicting winners?
Doug, can you please list the ratings that put UCLA in the top-25?
Count me amongst those who have no problems with the BCS ratings. My problem is the lack of a playoff. If I were in charge of setting up a playoff system, I would use something similar to a BCS rating to determine the at-large playoff births.
Unfortunately, my alma mater, RIT, isn't on the list, largely because they don't have a football team any more. They used to, however, and Tom Coughlin was their coach for a few seasons in the 1970s.
Rutgers???
I think Rutgers will beat Louisville.
I've been a statistician for 19 years I can tell you without a doubt that your beloved computer algorithms are C-R-A-P. A statistical model is judged on it's predictive ability - guess what? - they're not predictive. Doug - look at the number average of SEC players in the pros by school and then compare this to the Big Easy - and only after that then we'll talk - otherwise your talking more C-R-A-P. For this year - we'll wait until draft day.