HOF 2010: John Randle
Posted by Chase Stuart on November 30, 2009
In September, we noted that 131 candidates were placed on the preliminary list of modern-era nominees for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Saturday, that list was narrowed down to 25 semifinalists. By January 7th, that list will be reduced by a mail ballot to 15 modern-era finalists. Floyd Little and Dick LeBeau are the two senior nominees this year, which means there will be 17 modern-era finalists from which the Hall will select between four and seven new members (but no more than five from the semifinalist list; classes of six or seven can only be achieved if one or two senior nominees are selected). On Saturday, February 6, 2010, the day before Super Bowl XVIV, the members of the Class of 2010 will be announced.
P-F-R plans to do a profile of as many of the players as we have time; hopefully we can do one for all 25. Two men are locks -- the all-time leading rusher and receiver are going to be part of the class of 2010. In addition to a ton of individual records, Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice each have won three Super Bowls; they're the definition of first ballot Hall of Famers. Here are the AV scores of 20 of the players on the final list; in addition to them, Paul Tagliabue (NFL Commissioner), Don Coryell (head coach of the Cardinals and Chargers), Art Modell (owner of the Browns and Ravens) and two special team players for whom we don't calculate AV (Steve Tasker and Ray Guy), made the cut:
160 WR Jerry Rice 129 RB Emmitt Smith 114 DE/LB Chris Doleman 111 LB Rickey Jackson 107 DT John Randle 104 WR Tim Brown 104 CB/S Aeneas Williams 101 TE Shannon Sharpe 99 DT Cortez Kennedy 98 WR Cris Carter 97 DE Richard Dent 97 LB/DE Kevin Greene 97 WR Andre Reed 93 RB Roger Craig 87 WR Cliff Branch 85 DE/LB Charles Haley 83 C Dermontti Dawson 73 RB Terrell Davis 72 CB Lester Hayes 63 G Russ Grimm
Today, we start with John Randle. The Minnesota Vikings have a long tradition of outstanding defensive linemen, one that continues today. Alan Page and Carl Eller, permanently residing in Canton, teamed with Jim Marshall and Gary Larsen in the 1970s to give the Purple People Eaters arguably the greatest defensive line of all-time. Chris Doleman, like Randle, is one of the semifinalists for induction this year, and is fourth on the all-time list of official sacks. Today, the Vikings great defensive line is anchored by the Williams Wall and Jared Allen, one of the best defensive ends in the league. Minnesota has never won a Super Bowl, but they've been home to some tremendous defensive linemen over the last 40 years.
With that sort of history, no one would expect that an undrafted, undersized defensive tackle out of Texas A&M-Kingsville would be remembered as one of the franchise's all-time greats. But on an offensive powerhouse, Randle brought back visions of pass rushers past. From 1993 to 1998, John Randle was named a first-team All-Pro by the Associated Press and made the Pro Bowl in every season. On those Vikings, it was usually the offensive players that got recognition -- Randall McDaniel, Todd Steussie, Jeff Christy, Cris Carter, Warren Moon, Robert Smith and Randy Moss would make Pro Bowls for the offense during those seasons. During those six seasons, no Vikings defensive back ever made a Pro Bowl; only one other defensive lineman, Chris Doleman in 1993, would get such an honor. Two linebackers, Ed McDaniel ('98) and Jack Del Rio ('93) were named to Pro Bowls.
From '93 to '98, the Vikings scored about 3.0 more points per game than the league average team, with their offensive success culminating in their record breaking 1998 season. Those years, the Vikings defense allowed just 0.1 fewer points per game than average. When people think of the Vikings of the mid-90s, defense is the last thing that comes to mind. And that's a shame, because Randle was one of the best defensive players of the decade.
During that six year span, Randle had AV scores of 16, 16, 16, 15, 14 and 13. No other Vikings defensive player during those seasons had an AV score above 13. Randle was arguably the best defensive tackle in the league each of those years, and the numbers back it up. For most of the '90s, he was the best interior pass rusher in the NFL.
- In 1992, his 11.5 sacks trailed only Ray Childress and Cortez Kennedy among defensive tackles.
- In 1993, Randle had 12.5 sacks, the most of any interior linemen in the NFL.
- In '94, Randle had 13.5 sacks; no other DT had double digit sacks that season.
- The next year, Randle had double digit sacks for the fourth straight season; he was tied for fifth among defensive tackles.
- In 1996, Randle and Bryant Young led all defensive tackles with 11.5 sacks.
- In 1997, Randle had 15.5 sacks, the most by any DT in the decade of the '90s.
- In 1998, injuries and free agency made the Vikings move Randle to defensive end. He led the team in sacks with 10.5. Over the next three yeras, at ages 32, 33 and 34, Randle would play both end and tackle for the Seahawks and Vikings, and still record 29 sacks.
Will Randle make the HOF? At a minimum, he'll have to impress voters more than Cortez Kennedy, the only other defensive tackle semifinalist. He may be competing with fellow defensive linemen/pass rushers Chris Doleman and Charles Haley, and hybrid linebackers/pass rushers Rickey Jackson and Kevin Greene. The table below shows where Randle's AV score ranks among all players and all players not yet in the HOF, in four categories, from specific to broad:
Overall Rank Among non-HOFers
DT: 11 2 (Warren Sapp, Alex Karras)
DL: 23 6
IDP: 52 14
All: 82 26
Randle was one of the first stars at the under tackle position, and was arguably the best. He was not a quiet man in the trenches -- he wore war paint during games and had a vocal rivalry with Brett Favre. He was a dominating inside presence that one day should end up in Canton. With a Viking enshrined last season (Randall McDaniel) and another high on the list this year (Cris Carter), Randle may not might it right away. But he should get in there eventually.
Chances he'll make the HOF in 2010? Pretty good.
Chances he'll ever make the HOF? Excellent.
Should he be a HOFer? Yes.
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November 30th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Whats the score for Richard Dent?
November 30th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Good catch, bcarrera. He's in there now -- with an AV of 97. You can also find the AV of any player since 1950 by going to their P-F-R player page.
November 30th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Here's something I remember hearing a couple years back about Randle: Supposedly, the way he lined up and the way he played, he was able to make his numbers look good but at the expense of the overall defense, which could explain his statistical dominance but the Vikings' overall defensive mediocrity. I think it's the equivalent of a risk-taking CB, who might rack up interceptions and make the Pro Bowl repeatedly but blow coverages enough that he's actually not very good, overall.
I didn't know enough about football while watching the Vikings in the mid-90s to pay that much attention to Randle's play to see that for myself, but this always sticks in the back of my mind and makes me a trifle wary about his HOF candidacy.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Jason W,
Randle was an undertackle, and he likely lined up in a way that basically treated him like a defensive end. In '97, his best sack season, he was lining up next to Jerry Ball, a big space-eating defensive tackle.
As Jene Bramel wrote in the article I linked to, "With the strong side (TE side in this diagram) guard essentially uncovered, the defensive line has shifted away, or undershifted, from the strength of the offensive line. The strong side defensive tackle plays over the shoulder of the center and the weak side end plays a loose 5-technique outside the tackle, leaving the weak side defensive tackle (our 3-technique/undertackle) isolated against a guard. In many ways, on passing downs, you've schemed yourself a third defensive end."
With Ball as the strong-side tackle, Randle would be essentially isolated as a pass rusher in the way a DE would be. The scheme Minnesota used certainly enabled Randle to rack up the sack totals. Of course, that's how a team with a great interior pass rusher should scheme, to help their best player. So I'm not sure if the way he lined up made his numbers look good at the overall expense of the defense, or just if the way he lined up made his numbers look good. Randle was certainly a better pass rusher than run stopper, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was hurting his team.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Similar to Jason W, I don't have a sense personally of how good Randle was but I have heard Vikings fans say that he shouldn't make the HOF because he totally ignored the run in the interests of rushing the passer. Of course, there's no way to know if he was just doing what the coaching staff wanted, like Dwight Freeney for example.
November 30th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Nevermind, I posted too late.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
BGA,
I'm just speculating on what Randle's role was; even as an undertackle, he has responsibility to stop the run. I'm not sure what way we have of knowing, however, how good he actually was at stopping the run.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
I am a Viking fan and I never had any complaints about Randle. I can't speak for the coaches during Randle's era, but when Marshall, Page, Eller, and Larsen played they were told to rush the passer on every down. That was their role - to "meet at the QB." So some teams ran right at the Vikes. Eller and Page made the Hall. Randle should too. We (as Minnesota fans) were spoiled to have him on the team because he was such a destructive force. I vote yes.
November 30th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
If I'm any of the other candidates, the last thing I want is to be enshrined in the same year as Rice and Smith. You'd be treated like chopped liver throughout the whole enshrinement and induction ceremony, almost like you didn't even matter. Under no circumstances would I like to go into the Hall Of Fame that way. Randle is the only guy who might pull it off just because of his loquacious personality.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:35 pm
While he was playing, I read somebody on how Randle was hugely focused on rushing the passer, to the exclusion of everything else, and every Viking game thereafter was ruined for me at seeing just how obvious that was. Randle was really, really unsound, like Dwight Freeney at his most aggressive. But, people saw high sack totals for a DT and assumed greatness, so he made Pro Bowls and All-Pro and thus looks great in AV.
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Again, Randle's role may have been to do just that - rush the passer and not anything else - which he did exceedingly well. With Jerry Ball around occupying space and playing the run up the middle why would you need Randle to do anything other than pressure the QB? In a 4-3 scheme getting gut pressure up the middle from the under tackle means a lot in disrupting the pass pocket - with or without two bookends rushing.
I am biased. I am a Viking fan. But given that I saw all his games I never had a complaint about his play. Far from it. For years he was the beast on an otherwise less than stellar unit.
December 22nd, 2009 at 10:09 am
Jason W said: "I think it's the equivalent of a risk-taking CB, who might rack up interceptions and make the Pro Bowl repeatedly but blow coverages enough that he's actually not very good, overall."
I'm wondering a whole lot if this observation applies even better to DBs high up in career INT totals but with low numbers in pro bowl and 1st team all pro honors. Guys like Ken Riley, Emmitt Thomas, Dave Brown, Eugene Robinson, and yes, Dick LeBeau. Note that Riley and LeBeau were the CB "other half" for Lemar Parrish and Dick Lane/Lem Barney -- and am thinking they got a lot of INTs because QBs avoided their counterparts. Not exactly a positive quality, one would think. I don't at all get the seeming rush to enshrine such DBs in the HoF -- in fact, I don't see why they even belong. For all of me, Emmitt Thomas over Johnny Robinson is a major HoF mistake.
December 30th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
I agree with the writter! I know the John Randle will get in and so should Chris Doleman! Those were two of my favorite defensive players!
February 6th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Randle made it. Now get Jim Marshall in!