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ShareThisPI Finds: Brees’ Banner Night
Two weeks after their debacle at Indianapolis, the New England Patriots suffered another embarrassing defeat in front of a national television audience on Monday night, as Drew Brees ravaged their defense en route to a 38-17 New Orleans Saints blowout. Here are the worst losses by the Patriots during the Bill Belichick era:
| Year | Day | Date | Team | Points | Opponent | Points | Location | Margin |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2003 | Sun | 9/7/2003 | Patriots | 0 | Bills | 31 | Buffalo | -31 |
| 2008 | Sun | 9/21/2008 | Patriots | 13 | Dolphins | 38 | Foxboro | -25 |
| 2000 | Thu | 11/23/2000 | Patriots | 9 | Lions | 34 | Detroit | -25 |
| 2005 | Sun | 10/2/2005 | Patriots | 17 | Chargers | 41 | Foxboro | -24 |
| 2008 | Sun | 11/30/2008 | Patriots | 10 | Steelers | 33 | Foxboro | -23 |
| 2009 | Mon | 11/30/2009 | Patriots | 17 | Saints | 38 | New Orleans | -21 |
| 2006 | Sun | 12/10/2006 | Patriots | 0 | Dolphins | 21 | Miami | -21 |
Brees was also at the helm of the Chargers' offense during that 41-17 game in 2005, so he's actually engineered two blowouts over the Belichick Patriots in his career.
But Brees' monster performance on Monday Night Football really stands out in particular as one of the best by a QB against the New England defense during Belichick's tenure there. Here are the most passing yards in a game vs. the Patriots since 2000:
| Rk | Player | Date | Tm | Location | Result | Cmp | Att | Yds | TD | Int |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Kurt Warner | 11/18/2001 | STL | Foxboro | W 24-17 | 30 | 42 | 401 | 3 | 2 |
| 2 | Trent Green | 11/22/2004 | KAN | Kansas City | L 19-27 | 27 | 42 | 381 | 2 | 1 |
| 3 | Drew Brees | 11/30/2009 | NOR | New Orleans | W 38-17 | 18 | 23 | 371 | 5 | 0 |
| 4 | Kurt Warner | 2/3/2002 | STL | New Orleans | L 17-20 | 28 | 44 | 365 | 1 | 2 |
| 5 | Brian Griese | 10/1/2000 | DEN | Denver | L 19-28 | 31 | 50 | 361 | 1 | 1 |
| 6 | Gus Frerotte | 11/13/2005 | MIA | Miami | L 16-23 | 25 | 47 | 360 | 2 | 1 |
| 7 | Steve McNair | 10/5/2003 | TEN | Foxboro | L 30-38 | 23 | 45 | 360 | 0 | 1 |
| 8 | Donovan McNabb | 2/6/2005 | PHI | Jacksonville | L 21-24 | 30 | 51 | 357 | 3 | 3 |
| 9 | Elvis Grbac | 12/4/2000 | KAN | Foxboro | L 24-30 | 25 | 46 | 350 | 3 | 1 |
| 10 | Matt Hasselbeck | 10/17/2004 | SEA | Foxboro | L 20-30 | 27 | 50 | 349 | 0 | 2 |
In addition, Brees became the first passer to throw for 5 touchdowns in a game vs. New England during the Belichick era:
| Rk | Player | Date | Tm | Location | Result | Cmp | Att | Yds | TD | Int |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Drew Brees | 11/30/2009 | NOR | New Orleans | W 38-17 | 18 | 23 | 371 | 5 | 0 |
| 2 | Eli Manning | 12/29/2007 | NYG | East Rutherford | L 35-38 | 22 | 32 | 251 | 4 | 1 |
| 3 | Peyton Manning | 11/15/2009 | IND | Indianapolis | W 35-34 | 28 | 44 | 327 | 4 | 2 |
| 4 | Peyton Manning | 11/30/2003 | IND | Indianapolis | L 34-38 | 29 | 48 | 278 | 4 | 1 |
All told, it was a banner passing night for Brees, who entered the game with many in the media still wondering if he belonged in the discussion with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning as the game's top quarterback. After a performance like the one he had against the Pats, I'd say the answer seems to be a resounding "yes".
This entry was posted on Monday, November 30th, 2009 at 11:23 pm and is filed under PI Finds. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Drew Brees reminds me of Dan Marino. He can really put up big numbers and now at least, convert them into team wins in the regular season. Will he be able to play that way and have some success in the playoffs-let's hope so for his sake.
He had 20.48 AY/A in this game, the most since the merger with 20+ attempts. To do it against a quality team is just spectacular. I honestly thought this was going to be the end of their perfect season.
I try not to get excited about things that will almost certainly not happen, but damn it'd be awesome to see two unbeaten teams in the superbowl
Good call, Mattie. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Gwz6y
Bob - Wouldn't you agree that it was a playoff-type atmosphere last night? And wouldn't you agree that the Saints had a lot of pressure on them, since they were undefeated, playing on MNF, in what some people were calling the "game of the year"? Yet you're telling me that if last night's game actually took place in the playoffs (putting aside the fact that NWE and NOR wouldn't play unless it was the Super Bowl), Brees would have played differently, presumably worse?
In fact, where does this whole "Brees is a choker" thing come from with you, anyway? Brees has a higher career playoff passer rating than Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Ben Roethlisberger, Brett Favre, and John Elway:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/gzSRw
Is it just based on team W-L record?
Check out this stat from Brees' historic night:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/D3phF
And this:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/SE1Gt
Number of 40+ pass attempt games in each of the last four seasons for Brees:
2006 - 4
2007 - 9
2008 - 8
2009 - 0
Now THAT just might be the most amazing thing about Brees this year to me. The guy who attempted almost 1300 passes in 07-08 could finish with barely 500 this season. And it's not out of the question that he could go the entire season without throwing it 40 times in a game. And because his attempts have been kept in check, that's allowed him to post so far ridiculous marks in Y/A(9.1) and TD Rate(7.9).
Coming into this season, I thought Brees was capable of putting up these kinds of numbers if allowed to play without carrying the burden of dominating the offense for 60 minutes. With Payton trusting his runners more, and the defense taking the ball away and scoring at a remarkable rate, it's allowed Brees to have to be great for only a portion of the game.
If Ellis would have just fallen on the fumble, I think the Saints would be #1 on the blowout vs. Belichick list. Dumbass.
Most attempts by a QB with a perfect QB rating: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/iLzqk
How about this: Fewest attempts in a 370+ yard game
Of course Ken O'Brien would top one of those lists. He's also had the most games with a 9.0+ adj Y/A vs. Dan Marino in the 80's. Yeah, it really means nothing. God I hate being a Jets fan.
By the way, what happened to the Big Game logs? They're, uh, lacking info for all the players I checked.
I'm glad we have proof now that Drew Brees is good.
Neil, I would agree with you to a point about the pressure of that game, BUT, I doubt if it even comes close to the WIN OR GO HOME pressure that QB's feel in the playoffs. It will be interesting to see how Brees handles that playoff pressure this year. He seems to be maturing in his leadership abilities.
The Pats aren't the same defensively compared to 03-04.
Really Neil, you're using a three game sample size in the post-season to make your point about Brees? That's way too small to come to any real conclusion.
Also, forget QB rating, I like Adjusted Net Yards per attempt. :]
My point is this: Brees is an outstanding QB, we have mountains of games worth of data upon which to base that assertion. So, from my perspective, I assume he'll play well no matter if it's the playoffs or not. But Bob, for whatever reason, says Brees hasn't proven he "can play in the postseason" yet.
Now, I don't think there's a difference, I think that if you can play well against good teams in the regular season, you can play well against them in the playoffs. But even if you adhered to the belief that there's some kind of difference between the two situations that would cause a "choker" to play worse, Brees' postseason stats are really good, too. So even if you thought that there was such a thing as a QB who magically turned from great to mediocre when the playoffs rolled around, there's absolutely zero evidence that Brees is one of "those guys". And I doubt people who believe in "clutch QBs" are really worried about sample size validity.
Any day (or night) the Pats get blown out is truly one to savor
That's all I really care about. Brees's stats are just icing on the cake.
BTW it just KILLS me that the Fins passed him up not only once, but TWICE!
I was thinking about how lucky Bush is to be on the Saints. I get the feeling he'd be a pretty big bust in a lot of offenses around the league, but he fits in as a Swiss army knife pretty well on their team.
Even if Brees's stats were to decline in the playoffs, it doesn't necessarily mean he has played poorly. The playoffs bring better defenses and worse weather than the regular season. Every QB's rating should decline in the playoffs at least a bit. There are only a few QBs that increase their stats.
Well Neil, I'm a Colts fan so I understand where you are coming from somewhat. I think Peyton's production in the playoffs is quite respectable and that he's better than Brady regardless of it being the regular or post-season. The Marvin Harrison factor seems to make a world of difference for the Colts, I think his absence will certainly assist Indy later on.
I do not think Brees is a "choker", but I wouldn't say he's been a better playoff QB than some of the others below him yet. It is a vague issue still. I suspect he will play well in the post-season this or some future season. He just hasn't made it to the playoffs too many times.
The Pats are not close to what they were defensively, and they pulled their starters with over five minutes to go. Once there was a team that come back from a 21 point deficit in that situation before. I think they should have given it one more drive especially if Randy Moss is on your team.
I should also point out that I'm a Pats fan, I've just been incredibly impressed with Brees so far this year, even Mon. night (obviously our defense is not what it was during the Super Bowl years, but still, he dissected it like an expert surgeon). So I'm not saying Brees is better than Manning or Brady, either, but I think he's getting very close to the point where you have to consider them all equals.
And as for pulling the starters, I was pretty upset when BB did that. I thought we should have fought hard to the end, especially since we made such a big deal out of "playing 60 minutes" a few years ago.
Roby #19, you hit on an excellent point-the defenses as you go on in the playoffs usually get better and better. And that is what makes it so special when you see QB's that not only lead their teams to multiple championships, but also play great and put up very good numbers in doing it. They have to be given extra credit for accomplishing that much, and most of the time they ARE given extra credit, and rightfully so.
Neil, Brees' sample size in playoff games (three games) is far too small to compare to the guys you listed. And Brees' choker reputation isn't based just on his 1-2 playoff record, it's also based on his failure to make the playoffs in five out of his seven previous seasons as a starter.
You mean these seven seasons? Yeah, he definitely wasn't pulling his weight there. What a failure.
This was a treat to watch. I've always liked Brees and expected him to do well with the Saints, but not this well. It's about time an explosive offensive team would go all the way ('98 Vikings and '07 Pats thoughts still hurt). As said, this season they also have some defence.
Neil #10, a non-perfect Johnny U game sneaked into your list (17/22 for "only" 77.3% and 158.1 rating).
A pity about the last incompletion... Without it, his AY/A for the game would be 21.41. Also, following the 68-yd completion to Colston his line was 12/14 for 297 and 3 TDs, which makes for 25.5 AY/A. This number is so unbelievable, that the following 2-yd TD pass actually dragged it down.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/XaH92
Before this season, I would have been more likely to agree with Bob's comparison of Brees to Marino. But, this year, he has done an excellent job of working within the framework of a balanced offense. As has been noted, he isn't throwing as much as in years past, but he is doing so more efficiently than ever. That said, I personally think he needs a SB win to be considered in the class of Manning and Brady, but that is really all he lacks. It may be unfair, since teams win championships, not individuals, but that is how it's always been in the NFL. I am about numbers, as well, but in the end, the goal each year is to win the SB, not put up great numbers.
Larry, your last sentence says it all. Every QB's main goal is to lead their team to a win in the S.B. and those that fail to ever do just that have never fulfilled their objective.