AV All-franchise teams: NFC East
Posted by Doug on July 30, 2008
Just for fun, I decided to use my Approximate Value method to come up with a post-merger all-franchise team for each franchise. I’ll post them by division.
Previous Divisions:
NFC West
NFC South
AFC North
AFC East
NFC North
Here are the rules:
1. The AV systems gives a player a score for each player season. To combine these into a career number, I take 100% of the player’s best season, plus 95% of his second-best season, plus 90% of his third-best season, and so on.
2. I’m only comfortable (for now) applying the AV methodology to post-merger seasons. Players who debuted before the merger, however, are included if their post-merger seasons alone merit inclusion. In this case, they have a ‘+’ after their AV score to remind you that their career AV is (probably) higher than the number shown.
3. To avoid 4-3/3-4 issues, I gave each defense 12 players, including two DT/NTs, two DEs, two OLBs, and two ILB/MLBs.
4. Because of the slippery and changing nature of defining what a fullback is, I simply decided to go with two RB/FBs, instead of an RB and an FB.
As with most things AV-related, this series of posts is mostly just for fun, but I’m also curious to hear feedback from long-time followers of the teams about things that look fishy.
Dallas Cowboys
QB Roger Staubach 102+ RB Emmitt Smith 126 RB Tony Dorsett 103 WR Michael Irvin 105 WR Drew Pearson 78 TE Billy Joe DuPree 58 T Rayfield Wright 83+ T Erik Williams 71 G Larry Allen 85 G Nate Newton 73 C Tom Rafferty 65 DT Randy White 121 DT Jethro Pugh 61+ DE Too Tall Jones 97 DE Harvey Martin 82 ILB Bob Breunig 65 ILB Lee Roy Jordan 61+ OLB D.D. Lewis 63+ OLB Dexter Coakley 61 CB Mel Renfro 67+ CB Everson Walls 65 SS Darren Woodson 78 FS Cliff Harris 84
New York Giants
QB Phil Simms 90 RB Tiki Barber 99 RB Ron A. Johnson 54+ RB Rodney Hampton 54 WR Amani Toomer 63 WR Chris Calloway 37 TE Bob Tucker 59 T Brad Benson 53 T Doug Riesenberg 51 G Doug Van Horn 50+ G William Roberts 45 C Bart Oates 54 DT Keith Hamilton 72 DT John Mendenhall 47 DE Michael Strahan 121 DE Leonard Marshall 65 ILB Harry Carson 93 ILB Brian Kelley 59 OLB Lawrence Taylor 139 OLB Jessie Armstead 68 CB Mark Haynes 61 CB Perry Williams 50 SS Beasley Reece 35 FS Terry Kinard 45
Philadelphia Eagles
QB Donovan McNabb 87 [Randall Cunningham = 86] RB Wilbert Montgomery 71 RB Brian Westbrook 58 WR Harold Carmichael 79 WR Mike Quick 45 TE Keith Jackson 37 T Jerry Sisemore 68 T Tra Thomas 61 G Wade Key 38 G Ron Baker 37 C Guy Morriss 52 DT Charlie Johnson 55 DT Jerome Brown 48 DE Reggie White 112 DE Clyde Simmons 68 ILB Bill Bergey 69+ ILB Jeremiah Trotter 62 OLB Seth Joyner 61 OLB William Thomas 58 CB Eric Allen 73 CB Troy Vincent 71 SS Randy Logan 68 FS Brian Dawkins 87
Washington Redskins
QB Joe Theismann 87 RB Larry Brown 71+ RB John Riggins 58 WR Art Monk 91 WR Gary Clark 76 TE Jerry Smith 43+ T Joe Jacoby 83 T George Starke 62 G Russ Grimm 63 G Mark May 46 C Len Hauss 58+ DT Dave Butz 81 DT Diron Talbert 71+ DE Charles Mann 80 DE Ron McDole 63+ DE Dexter Manley 63 ILB Neal Olkewicz 58 ILB Harold McLinton 54+ OLB Chris Hanburger 91+ OLB Wilber Marshall 54 CB Darrell Green 103 CB Mike Bass 52+ SS Ken Houston 81+ FS Mark H. Murphy 40 FS Brig Owens 40+
July 30th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
As a Cowboy fan, Jethro Pugh over Bob Lilly looks fishy. I assume that is the merger effect kicking in.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:17 am
Scary skill-positioners for the Cowboys Offense...
July 31st, 2008 at 4:15 am
I'm a bit surprised Charley Taylor doesn't get into the Redskins team, but that must be the "merger effect".
I just wonder how close were Troy Aikman and Ron Jaworsky to start for their teams...
July 31st, 2008 at 5:10 am
Another fascinating piece, Doug. I was curious, though, about how close did Carl Banks come to Jesse Armstead.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:11 am
Also, how close was Jay Novacek to Billy Joe Dupree?
July 31st, 2008 at 7:41 am
Joshua, you're right. Most of Lilly's career is pre-merger.
mesq, same for Charley Taylor, who has some stiff competition at WR.
Alex, Carl Banks is at 53. He is a weird case. He has only one single season where he achieved any sort of pro bowl or all-pro recognition at all, which doesn't really square with the way he is currently remembered. He was named to the NFL's all-decade team for the 80s, for instance. His reputation has aged well.
Novacek is 10 points behind Dupree and one point ahead of Doug Cosbie.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:21 pm
From your big post on AV for offensive players:
>Kinds of players who are under-valued:
>Linemen (especially guards and tackles) who >were good, but not good enough to make the >pro bowl.
As a Redskins fan I feel like this conspires against the Hogs. Jacoby's rating seems fair enough, but I would have thought that Grimm (and the absent Bostic) would do better. Having all those great OLs playing together certainly helped the Skins to their 3 SBs under 3 different QBs, but it probably worked against any of them getting the individual acclaim they deserve. None of them received Ruben Brown/Will Shields-like automatic pro bowl berths -- in fact no one Hog had more than 4 appearences -- and none of them are in the HoF...
August 1st, 2008 at 4:52 am
Thanks for the clarifications, Doug. Cosbie was definitely one of the underrated TEs in the 80's. I'm surprised his score was so low.
How close in score was Andre Waters to the starting safeties for the Eagles?
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Where is Bednarik on the Eagles list? He's generally considered the greatest Eagle ever, and he should probably be on this list at Center AND ILB. I am glad to see Joyner here, as I think he's unfairly forgotten in these kinds of discussions.
August 4th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I'm surprised Staubach and Simms are so close. In my QB posts, Staubach ranked as one of the greatest QBs ever, and Simms was not even in the top 50. Theisman also ranked poorly in my system.
August 26th, 2008 at 4:52 am
Doug,
What about the last two divisions? It's been a month...
January 28th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
As I Cowboys fan, I'm interested in things of this nature and with AV now showing up from before 1970 I'd thought I'd stick in an updated team.
QB : Roger Staubach 104 (HOF)
RB : Emmitt Smith 129 (HOF)
RB : Tony Dorsett 107 (HOF)
WR : Michael Irvin 105 (HOF)
WR : Bob Hayes 79 (HOF)*
TE : Jason Witten 53*
OT : Ralph Neely 94
OT : Rayfield Wright 86 (HOF)
G : Larry Allen 85
G : John Niland 78
C : Tom Rafferty 65
DT : Bob Lilly 128 (HOF)
DT : Randy White 121 (HOF)
DE : Too Tall Jones 97
DE : Harvey Martin 82
OLB : Chuck Howley 105*
OLB : DeMarcus Ware 45*
MLB : Lee Roy Jordan 95
CB : Mel Renfro 112 (HOF)
CB : Cornell Green 97*
SS : Darren Woodson 79
FS : Cliff Harris 84
Notes:
Drew Pearson is tied with Bob Hayes.
Billy Joe Dupree (58) is technically still the AV leader at tight end, but that should change once it is updated to include this season.
Chuck Howley is the clear leader at outside linebacker, but a few of those points came from a stint with the Bears. I don't know how many.
Much like Witten and Dupree, Ware either already has passed D.D. Lewis (64) or will next year. 19 seems to pretty close to average for a first team all-pro defender.
Cornell Green played both safety and corner during his career. He gets this spot because he played corner longer and because Woodson, the alternate safety, is more deserving than the alternate corner Everson Walls.
January 28th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
The most surprising thing to me assembling this was the dominance of Landry's guys over the 90s crew on the offensive line.