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AV all-franchise teams redux: AFC
Just for fun, I decided to use my Approximate Value method to come up with a post-merger all-franchise team for each franchise.
Throughout the dog days, I had been posting these by division, and I had been limiting these lists to post-merger players. But after six divisions were done, I revamped the AV formula to include seasons in the 1950--1969 range. So I'm going to post all the teams in two posts. This one is the AFC edition.
Here are the rules:
1. The AV systems gives a player a score for each player season. To combine these into a career number, I take 100% of the player’s best season, plus 95% of his second-best season, plus 90% of his third-best season, and so on.
2. I’m only comfortable (for now) applying the AV methodology to seasons 1950 and later. Players who debuted before 1950, however, are included if their post-1950 seasons alone merit inclusion. In this case, they have a ‘+’ after their AV score to remind you that their career AV is (probably) higher than the number shown.
3. To avoid 4-3/3-4/5-2 issues, I gave each defense 12 players, including two DT/NTs, two DEs, two OLBs, and two ILB/MLBs. I have also now lumped all safeties together instead of distinguishing between free and strong safeties.
4. Because of the slippery and changing nature of defining what a fullback is, I simply decided to go with two RB/FBs, instead of an RB and an FB.
5. What to do with players whose position was "End" in the 50s. Are they tight ends? Wide receivers? To deal with this problem, I've lumped TEs, WRs, and Es of all years into one category, which I've called 'RC' (ReCeiver), and I'm allowing four of them per team. After all, if the defense is playing with 12, I should allow the offense the same luxury.
As with most things AV-related, this series of posts is mostly just for fun, but I’m also curious to hear feedback from long-time followers of the teams about things that look fishy.
EDIT: commenter Scott uncovered a bug in my program. These lists were updated to correct the error on the morning of Sunday, 8/31. Thanks, Scott!
Baltimore Ravens
QB Vinny Testaverde 24 RB Jamal Lewis 54 RB Priest Holmes 17 RC Todd Heap 39 RC Travis Taylor 24 RC Qadry Ismail 22 RC Michael Jackson 22 T Jonathan Ogden 101 T Orlando Brown 30 G Edwin Mulitalo 27 G Jeff Blackshear 21 C Mike Flynn 32 DT Kelly Gregg 47 DT Tony Siragusa 33 DE Rob Burnett 48 DE Michael McCrary 47 ILB Ray Lewis 123 ILB Ed Hartwell 26 OLB Peter Boulware 60 OLB Adalius Thomas 52 CB Chris McAlister 72 CB Duane Starks 23 S Ed Reed 61 S Rod Woodson 45
Buffalo Bills
QB Jim Kelly 102 RB Thurman Thomas 110 RB O.J. Simpson 91 RC Andre Reed 96 RC Eric Moulds 69 RC Bob Chandler 42 RC Frank Lewis 40 T Joe Devlin 60 T Ken Jones 50 G Joe DeLamielleure 63 G Ruben Brown 63 C Kent Hull 73 DT Fred Smerlas 81 DT Jim Dunaway 55 DE Bruce Smith 139 DE Phil Hansen 63 ILB Shane Conlan 50 ILB Jim Haslett 41 OLB Mike Stratton 71 OLB Cornelius Bennett 71 CB Butch Byrd 58 CB Charles Romes 54 S Henry Jones 57 S George Saimes 56
Cincinnati Bengals
QB Ken Anderson 121 RB James Brooks 71 RB Corey Dillon 54 RC Chad Johnson 73 RC Isaac Curtis 67 RC Cris Collinsworth 65 RC Bob Trumpy 64 T Anthony Munoz 137 T Willie Anderson 86 G Max Montoya 64 G Dave Lapham 46 C Bob Johnson 57 DT Tim Krumrie 65 DT Mike Reid 47 DE Eddie Edwards 61 DE Ross Browner 51 ILB Jim LeClair 59 ILB Glenn Cameron 45 OLB Reggie Williams 74 OLB Al Beauchamp 51 CB Ken Riley 91 CB Lemar Parrish 77 S David Fulcher 52 S Tommy Casanova 49
Cleveland Browns
QB Otto Graham 83+ RB Jim Brown 105 RB Leroy Kelly 74 RC Ozzie Newsome 81 RC Milt Morin 57 RC Gary Collins 53 RC Paul Warfield 52 T Lou Groza 99+ T Dick Schafrath 98 G Gene Hickerson 92 G Jim Ray Smith 65 C Frank Gatski 68+ DT Bob Gain 78 DT Michael Dean Perry 71 DE Len Ford 96+ DE Bill Glass 58 ILB Vince Costello 56 ILB Mike Johnson 47 OLB Clay Matthews 90 OLB Walt Michaels 79 CB Hanford Dixon 68 CB Frank Minnifield 64 S Thom Darden 55 S Ken Konz 46
Denver Broncos
QB John Elway 138 RB Terrell Davis 73 RB Floyd Little 71 RC Rod Smith 102 RC Shannon Sharpe 92 RC Riley Odoms 76 RC Ed McCaffrey 58 T Ken Lanier 62 T Matt Lepsis 62 G Paul Howard 48 G Dan Neil 42 C Tom Nalen 84 DT Rubin Carter 74 DT Trevor Pryce 65 DE Barney Chavous 73 DE Rulon Jones 64 ILB Randy Gradishar 92 ILB Karl Mecklenburg 91 OLB Tom Jackson 87 OLB Simon Fletcher 62 CB Louis Wright 95 CB Champ Bailey 54 S Bill Thompson 86 S Steve Atwater 79
Houston Texans
QB David Carr 41 RB Domanick Williams 32 RB Ron Dayne 10 RC Andre Johnson 41 RC Jabar Gaffney 16 RC Corey Bradford 14 RC Owen Daniels 14 T Ephraim Salaam 13 T Eric Winston 10 G Chester Pitts 33 G Zach Wiegert 15 C Steve McKinney 20 DT Seth Payne 20 DT Travis Johnson 9 DE Gary Walker 22 DE Jerry DeLoach 18 ILB Jamie Sharper 25 ILB Jay Foreman 21 OLB Kailee Wong 24 OLB Morlon Greenwood 17 CB Aaron Glenn 21 CB Dunta Robinson 19 S C.C. Brown 14 S Eric Brown 13
Indianapolis Colts
QB Johnny Unitas 141 RB Edgerrin James 99 RB Lenny Moore 95 RC Marvin Harrison 121 RC Raymond Berry 101 RC John Mackey 76 RC Reggie Wayne 75 T Jim Parker 101 T Tarik Glenn 82 G Alex Sandusky 68 G Art Spinney 59 C Jeff Saturday 73 DT Art Donovan 81 DT Fred Miller 78 DE Gino Marchetti 119 DE Ordell Braase 74 ILB Mike Curtis 82 ILB Jeff Herrod 45 OLB Don Shinnick 67 OLB Bill Pellington 64 CB Bobby Boyd 91 CB Eugene Daniel 58 S Jerry Logan 70 S Rick Volk 70
Jacksonville Jaguars
QB Mark Brunell 86 RB Fred Taylor 84 RB James Stewart 25 RC Jimmy Smith 94 RC Keenan McCardell 55 RC Kyle Brady 33 RC Pete Mitchell 27 T Tony Boselli 63 T Maurice Williams 42 G Chris Naeole 33 G Vince Manuwai 30 C Brad Meester 42 DT John Henderson 55 DT Marcus Stroud 51 DE Tony Brackens 49 DE Paul Spicer 32 ILB Mike Peterson 38 ILB Bryan Schwartz 18 OLB Kevin Hardy 46 OLB Daryl Smith 31 CB Rashean Mathis 45 CB Aaron Beasley 30 S Donovin Darius 44 S Deon Grant 21
Kansas City Chiefs
QB Len Dawson 98 RB Priest Holmes 69 RB Ed Podolak 54 RC Tony Gonzalez 94 RC Fred Arbanas 66 RC Otis Taylor 65 RC Henry Marshall 53 T Jim Tyrer 95 T John Alt 68 G Will Shields 95 G Ed Budde 77 C Jack Rudnay 62 DT Buck Buchanan 101 DT Dan Saleaumua 57 DE Neil Smith 80 DE Jerry Mays 80 ILB Willie Lanier 98 ILB Sherrill Headrick 52 OLB Derrick Thomas 105 OLB Bobby Bell 105 CB Emmitt Thomas 78 CB Albert Lewis 69 S Johnny Robinson 92 S Deron Cherry 78
Miami Dolphins
QB Dan Marino 146 RB Larry Csonka 65 RB Tony Nathan 59 RC Nat Moore 80 RC Mark Duper 76 RC Mark Clayton 75 RC Paul Warfield 55 T Richmond Webb 97 T Norm Evans 66 G Larry Little 98 G Bob Kuechenberg 77 C Jim Langer 80 DT Bob Baumhower 90 DT Tim Bowens 63 DE Jason Taylor 109 DE Bill Stanfill 77 ILB Zach Thomas 111 ILB Nick Buoniconti 62 OLB Larry Gordon 51 OLB Doug Swift 47 CB Sam Madison 79 CB Curtis Johnson 55 S Jake Scott 72 S Dick Anderson 70
New England Patriots
QB Tom Brady 91 RB Sam Cunningham 60 RB Tony Collins 47 RC Stanley Morgan 80 RC Ben Coates 58 RC Troy Brown 54 RC Russ Francis 48 T Bruce Armstrong 86 T Matt Light 59 G John Hannah 105 G Sam Adams 44 C Jon Morris 60 DT Houston Antwine 66 DT Ray Hamilton 53 DE Willie McGinest 71 DE Richard Seymour 69 ILB Steve Nelson 70 ILB Tedy Bruschi 66 OLB Andre Tippett 90 OLB Chris Slade 51 CB Raymond Clayborn 75 CB Mike Haynes 73 S Lawyer Milloy 56 S Fred Marion 49
New York Jets
QB Joe Namath 88 RB Curtis Martin 79 RB Freeman McNeil 78 RC Wesley Walker 72 RC Don Maynard 69 RC Jerome Barkum 62 RC Rich Caster 61 T Winston Hill 79 T Marvin Powell 78 G Randy Rasmussen 67 G Dan Alexander 60 C Joe Fields 68 DT Joe Klecko 71 DT Marty Lyons 50 DE Mark Gastineau 80 DE Gerry Philbin 60 ILB Kyle Clifton 56 ILB Marvin Jones 52 OLB Mo Lewis 88 OLB Larry Grantham 87 CB Aaron Glenn 53 CB James Hasty 42 S Victor Green 47 S Burgess Owens 36
Oakland Raiders
QB Ken Stabler 79 RB Marcus Allen 87 RB Mark van Eeghen 60 RC Tim Brown 103 RC Cliff Branch 86 RC Fred Biletnikoff 85 RC Todd Christensen 64 T Art Shell 103 T Henry Lawrence 66 G Gene Upshaw 110 G Steve Wisniewski 90 C Jim Otto 99 DT Otis Sistrunk 59 DT Chester McGlockton 54 DE Howie Long 97 DE Ben Davidson 58 ILB Dan Conners 72 ILB Matt Millen 54 OLB Ted Hendricks 75 OLB Rod Martin 74 CB Willie Brown 104 CB Lester Hayes 72 S George Atkinson 64 S Jack Tatum 63
Pittsburgh Steelers
QB Terry Bradshaw 106 RB Franco Harris 101 RB Jerome Bettis 65 RC John Stallworth 80 RC Hines Ward 72 RC Lynn Swann 61 RC Louis Lipps 55 T Larry Brown 68 T Jon Kolb 67 G Alan Faneca 80 G Sam Davis 49 C Mike Webster 100 DT Joe Greene 126 DT Ernie Stautner 111 DE L.C. Greenwood 95 DE Dwight White 65 ILB Jack Lambert 114 ILB Levon Kirkland 71 OLB Jack Ham 119 OLB Greg Lloyd 89 CB Mel Blount 111 CB Rod Woodson 104 S Donnie Shell 89 S Carnell Lake 73
San Diego Chargers
QB Dan Fouts 122 RB LaDainian Tomlinson 105 RB Chuck Muncie 41 RC Kellen Winslow 80 RC Charlie Joiner 78 RC Lance Alworth 73 RC Gary Garrison 60 T Russ Washington 99 T Ron Mix 75 G Doug Wilkerson 80 G Walt Sweeney 76 C Don Macek 55 DT Gary Johnson 69 DT Jamal Williams 59 DE Leslie O'Neal 72 DE Fred Dean 56 ILB Gary Plummer 42 ILB Donnie Edwards 41 OLB Junior Seau 120 OLB Woodrow Lowe 56 CB Gill Byrd 60 CB Mike H. Williams 42 S Kenny Graham 49 S Rodney Harrison 46
Tennessee Titans
QB Warren Moon 97 RB Eddie George 75 RB Earl Campbell 63 RC Ken Burrough 65 RC Ernest Givins 63 RC Drew Hill 60 RC Frank Wycheck 58 T Brad Hopkins 72 T Walt Suggs 49 G Bruce Matthews 120 G Mike Munchak 84 C Carl Mauck 32 DT Ray Childress 92 DT Curley Culp 59 DE Elvin Bethea 88 DE Pat Holmes 50 ILB Gregg Bingham 65 ILB Al Smith 54 OLB Robert Brazile 86 OLB Keith Bulluck 56 CB Cris Dishman 52 CB Zeke Moore 51 S Blaine Bishop 57 S Marcus Robertson 53
This entry was posted on Friday, August 29th, 2008 at 3:45 am and is filed under Approximate Value, General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

Good stuff with the Jets players. We should see Kerry Rhodes jump on there pretty soon. I like the pre-merger list better because Winston Hill, Maynard and Gerry Philbin get on there.
I'm a Jet fan also. First thing I notice is that the Jets are the only non-expansion team not to have anyone in the 100s (or the 90s for the matter). The Jets were god-awful in the 70s and most of the 90s, but it's interesting how they haven't had anyone in that upper level at all in the last 40 years.
Even Jacksonville had Jimmy Smith @ 94 and they've been around for only 13 years.
Most of the QB battles for the AFC teams aren't that interesting -- no hot debates about the best Dolphins, Broncos or Patriots QBs of all time. I think 15 of the 16 teams here jive with my best QB ever ranking -- with the Raiders as the lone exception.
I've got Daryle Lamonica as the 27th best regular season QB ever, Rich Gannon as the 31st, and Stabler 49th. Of course, my list doesn't restrict the player to simply his accomplishments with the Raiders, although I don't think that fully explains the difference.
Moon edges McNair (21st-28th), Dawson tops Green (10th-22nd) and Ken Anderson's ahead of Boomer (8th-17th). Of course, there's one more close call -- Manning and Unitas. That one's too close to call without a thorough look at Unitas' post-season data, which I don't have yet. As of now, I've got Manning ahead. I believe Unitas' teams did go 6-3 with him in the playoffs, so maybe he'd pass Manning in my system if he played very well in those games.
Domanick *Davis*, not "Williams". And how sad is it that he is Houston's all-time best RB?
Goo, he changed his name last year.
I don't know much, but why isn't Zimmerman on the Broncos? Seems odd that the only non-Elway HOF'er for the Broncos ever weren't even the best i franchise history? Is it all the Viking-years thats messing with me?
Don't know a whole lot about some of the other teams, but I do know the Broncos, clear back to 1960. Of course, these lists are subjective, but I noticed some obvious discrepancies in your Broncos list, including:
Odoms and McCaffrey listed instead of LIONEL TAYLOR
Lepsis instead of GARY ZIMMERMAN
Lanier instead of CLAUDE MINOR
Neil instead of KEITH BISHOP
Carter instead of DAVE COSTA
Chavous instead of RICH JACKSON
A valiant try, and I commend you for it. But, as I said, these are obvious.
I'm curious where two guys finished. How close was Dave Casper to making the Raiders? And how many AV points was Dwight Stephenson able to accumulate? Neither played enough seasons to make this list, but they were the highest regarded players at their position for their respective franchises.
Larry B,
Thanks for stopping by. I won't necessarily disagree with your proposed substitutions, but I will say that you and I don't have the same definition of the word "obvious."
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You seem to value peak over longevity. I am trying for a balance, but it's going to be virtually impossible for a player who essentially played five seasons (Rich Jackson) to rank higher than a 13-year starter (Chavous). Similarly with Zimmerman vs. Lepsis. And Costa only played five seasons as a Bronco to Rubin Carter's 11+
Scott,
Casper would be next on the Raiders receiver list. He's 10 points behind Christensen. Stephenson is at 71, 9 points behind Langer.
Thanks Doug. One other thing I realized later last night that I'm curious about. What about Lenny Moore? He had 95 career AVP on the overall list from a few weeks ago, but didn't make the Colts backfield over Lydell Mitchell's 78. Is the two seasons he listed at flanker the problem? He still had 90+ carries in both of those seasons.
Thanks Doug, Good to see the Chargers. The offense passes the smell test but defensively there's a little more that concerns me. I know that as far as the secondary goes we've probably got 2-3 of the best ever Chargers DBs currently on the squad - mainly because we've historically been weak in this area. Merriman (assuming he stays with us) should comfortably pass Woody Lowe. The "missing" player for me is Billy Ray Smith who was the best player on the late '80s Chargers defenses - I'm surprised he didn't accrue more than 41 points...
Also, scanning the Dolphins - where's John Offerdahl? He was the best Miami defensive player of a similar era...
megamanic,
Billy Ray Smith has 43 points. The reason he doesn't show up is because my program isn't smart enough (and it doesn't want to make the judgment calls necessary to) allow players to be eligible at more than one position. Smith got filed as an OLB rather than an ILB.
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Offerdahl is an interesting case. He just had a really short career. At that, he ranks just 4 points behind Buoniconti, whose Dolphin career wasn't much longer.
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Scott, yes, something is wrong with Lenny Moore. I'm not sure if it's the 95 from before or the 76 my program is giving him on this exercise. But something is fishy. I'll have to look into it. Thanks for the spot.
Bug found
Doug embarrassed
Bug fixed
New lists posted
Nothing too major changed (I hope)
Thanks, Scott.
Huh, whaddya know. I'll always remember him as Domanick Davis for the way he torpedoed my fantasy team by getting hurt a few years back. Williams or Davis, he's not getting a Christmas card from me anytime soon.
Surprised that Darryl Talley isn't on here.